students previewing via own questions
Marc
02/02/06 16:27
-> At the JALT colloquium, someone suggested having students look through the book they are going to read (pictures, blurb on back, etc.) and write a few questions about the book (i.e., page x. What is he throwing into the water?). Then, as they read or afterwards when writing a report, they include the answers.

The idea is to help the learners get used to previewing books and also to give them a bit more structure on their reporting task. I had students this this for two books and liked the results. The reading reports seemed more thorough. But I`m not sure if it is the technique itself or just the fact that they were doing something different. Does anyone have experience with this type of thing over the long term? Thanks.

reading review [3]
Julian
02/01/08 17:08
-> Christina, sorry for not offering a more timely response--put it down to the holidays! You say that your 11-year-old extensive reading program for lower secondary students is found "a bit boring and fussy." And that the school head has suggested a reading period as a solution. You ask how that might be done effectively and efficiently. I'd like to answer in two parts. First, if your extensive reading programme has been going for over a decade, it might have lost its initial impetus. I think we'd agree that, perhaps for all students, reading can be exciting. How to bring back the excitement to your programme? You might want to cast about for ideas, for example in the 'Model Programs' page of this site http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/information/er/model2.html and in the 'how to' section of the annotated bibliography http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/information/er/biblio.html (see for example Hsui, V. Y. [1994]. A modified sustained silent reading programme for secondary classrooms). Now to your head's suggestion of a reading period. I think he is suggesting sustained silent reading. Articles like Hsui 1994 are probably all you information you need to get the reading period for the school up and running. If you want to go deeper, try "The SSR Handbook: How to organize and manage a sustained silent reading program" by Janice Pilgreen (Boynton/Cook Heinemann, 2000). It's written for L1 teachers, but there is plenty of wonderful advice useful to L2 teachers. Good luck!
ER
nui
01/12/27 18:10
-> hi there
Feedbacks [1]
Andy
01/12/20 13:48
-> If you go to http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/information/er/research2.html, you'll find some stuff by people who have done it in Japan.
Feedbacks
rakuen
01/12/18 01:59
-> hi!I am quite interested in reading some articles on the research on extensive reaidng programmes in Japan And one thing came up to me the other day. I wonder hopw the techer incorporate studnets'feedbacks on the design of the programme, book popularity, etc...Iknow some reserchers, like Shmidth or Walker have done it in japan and UK. Are ther any other article anyone know who had done in these areas? hope to hear from anyone

Thanks

reading review [2]
Christina Yip
01/12/16 01:38
-> There have been an extensive reading scheme for my lower secondary students for over eleven years. Yet, both students and teachers find the programme a bit boring and fussy as students have to do a lot of filling ins before they can borrow one story book. The school head would like something more flexible and interesting. He suggested assigning a particular day for students to come back early to school and they gather together for reading. I would like to ask how this could be done effectively and efficiently?
Extensive Reading [6] (poster)
Andy
01/11/19 13:42
-> Marc, what I do is leave as many posters around the classroom as possible for students to look at and appreciate. We might then discuss what they notice about 'good posters' - things like visual impact, some big words, and some text, but not too much, the use of colour, and just design ideas and strengths. I've also tried this in a slightly different way where I have give each pair in a large class a couple of posters and ask them quickly to discuss 'What do you think of this poster?'. Pairs then discuss before passing the posters to the next pair, and repeating the same step until they've looked at about ten posters or so. We can then draw some ideas together in a fairly short time, and they can write down a quick reflection before they start making their own posters.

I try not to impose any frame on their poster presentations other than that. (And when I do poster presentations myself, I try not to work to any preconceived pattern either.) I think pairing up students who have the read the same book is one possibility. Recently I asked a class for the second half of the term if they wanted to work individually or in groups. (They were reading webpages on Medicine in Society and their own texts.) Half the group wanted to work in groups and ended up doing group poster presentations. The other half wanted to work individually, of whom half again wanted to work with the same partner each week (but each on their own topic), and the other half wanted to change partners each week (each on their own topic). So, there's a great variety of preferences within any one class, and part of the fun (and challenge) is trying to allow for students to read, discuss and present according to their own preferences.

Extensive Reading [5] (poster)
Marc
01/11/19 09:10
-> Andy, the poster idea sounds really interesting. Do you give the students a handout or anything with suggestions on how to do a poster or just let it evolve?

I take it they do the poster outside of class. I wonder if it would be useful to pair up students who have read the same book and do one in class.

Extensive Reading [4]
Andy
01/11/18 11:58
-> One thing I ask my students to do is to prepare a poster about the most interesting book that they have read (2 sheets of A3 stuck together). They then give a poster presentation in class to four or five other students. My students enjoy doing this, and over time we create a whole range of beautiful posters to look at. We use the posters for discussing what makes a good poster, and the quality of design just gets incredible. I also ask my students to do these poster presentations with content-based reading when they start choosing webpages and books from the univesrity library on themes of interest to them. The students do one presentation at half-term and one at the end of term. I like this because it is creative and it involves integrating skills and sharing enthusiasm for what they have read. My students enjoy it immensely, too. The poster presentation classes are very special - as many as nine groups taking over the whole lesson and discussing their readings through poster presentations.
Extensive Reading [5] / affect
Marc
01/11/12 09:31
-> Luciana wrote: "I think questions of other nature could also be incorporated in your lesson, like "How do you feel?" or "How is this story related to you?"

I totally agree. There is a scale called "Barrett's taxonomy of comprehension" that breaks down understand like this:
1. literal (lowest)
2. reorganization
3. inferrence
4. evaulation
5. appreciation.
Questions like, "How do you feel" are likely to get at the highest levels. If you are interested in this, there is a short article on comprehension quesions on my web page: http://www.mgu.ac.jp/~ic/helgesen/marc.article1.htm

Extensive Reading [4]
Luciana
01/11/10 00:04
-> I also believe that rehearsal can make the activity flow a lot better. I was reading an article by my professor Dr. Lourdes Ortega, and in her research she found out that when second language students had some time to plan what they were going to say before actually saying it, they would improve a lot in terms of fluency, and they would also be more concerned about the form of their speech. I believe your activity is very interesting because students are actually "feeling" the book they read, instead of just acting like an observer. However, I think questions of other nature could also be incorporated in your lesson, like "How do you feel?" or "How is this story related to you?", so learners would also have a chance to relate the story to their own lives, and it would become even more meaningful to them. What do you think?!
Extensive Reading [3] class activities
Marc
01/11/09 10:06
-> I agree with Luciana that writing summaries is not a very exciting task (my students do, but they are supposed to spend 10 minutes or less on a summary -- if they have more time, I'd rather have them start on another book). Anyway, I wonder if other teachers could share some of the things they do in class to have students talk about the books they are reading.

Here is a variation on an "instant oral report" that I have had great results with lately. I have the students choose a book they enjoyed. Then they close their eyes and, in their "mind's eye" get a picture of the main character (s). Then I ask a series questions (starting with WH questions -- Where are they? What does the place look like? How do they feel? What is happening?) etc. This supports them in sort of recreating the story in their mind. Once they have done this, I give them a minute or so of silence to "Watch the movie again. This time, think about how you will discribe it in English." Finally, they open their eyes and tell the story to a partner. The "mental rehearsal" really makes the speaking part of the activity flow a lot better.

Extensive Reading [2]
Luciana
01/11/09 01:23
-> I read your article and I really enjoyed it! Those are very interesting ideas that can be incorporated in an Extensive Reading course, in order to motivate students to read for pleasure. I believe learners feel more excited to read when they know they will share the information with their partners. Also, the activities you propose try to force students to get the general meaning of the story and make it meaningful for them. Further, students are also practicing their speaking skills. Everything that I had read about Extensive Reading so far refered to "Reading is its own reward", or sometimes students had to write summaries about the stories, which can be a very boring task. I think that, in this approaches, learners are losing a great opportunity to reflect on their own reading.
Extensive Reading [1] (students rating books)
Marc
01/11/06 12:04
-> I earlier mentioned having the students check "Good" "Average" or "Poor" on the inside cover of each book. This is simply to provide information to other students who might want to read it: If a bunch of students have said a book is good, others are likely to enjoy it. If a bunch say a book isn't interesting, other students usually check out something else. There is, by the way, space on the form for longer comments.

I do agee that it is useful to have students do more with talking about books, their opinions, etc. In a special issue of the JALT language teacher a while back, I wrote an article called, "Bringing those books back into the classroom: tasks for extensive reading." It is available on line at: http://langue.hyper.chubu.ac.jp/jalt/pub/tlt/97/may/shr_helgesen.html

Extensive Reading
Luciana
01/11/06 00:01
-> Hello! My name is Luciana and I'm very interested in learning more about the Extensive Reading Approach. I don't have much experience in teaching reading, but based on the theory I've been in contact so far, there are some doubts on my mind that I'd like to share with you. I've read a comment here saying that the way students grade books is by saying Great! Good! Bad! Do you think it is enough? Don't you think that they should have the opportunity to read between the lines and express their opinion about it? Don't you think that it would prepare students better for future readings and also, they would be able to associate their readings to their personal experiences. I would appreciate if you, as experienced ER teachers, could share your ideas about that topic with me. Thank you very much, Luciana.
Discounted sets
Julian
01/10/16 14:31
-> Further to Marc's posting about Longman (Pearson)'s 20% discount when buying all 340 Penguin Readers, the latest Oxford University Press catalog offers all 131 Bookworms titles as a set at a 30% discount. As these are new editions of old favorite Bookworms, it's a real incentive to freshen up our libraries. Will Macmillan get wind of this trend, and makes a similar offer on its 170 Heinemann Guided Readers? And how about Cambridge which has now close to 50 novels written for language learners?
Penguin Readers [5]
Marc
01/10/01 08:54
-> I just got a note from Longman Japan. They have come up with a bunch of ways to buy Penguin Readers in sets. They have one that contains one copy of each reader (340 titles) for 180,000 yen (about 36,000 less than buying them separately). They also have a set of the 50 most popular Penguin Readers in Japan. There are also sets that have all the readers at a particular level.

People who want more info. can contact Longman (Pearson) ELT at elt@pearsoned.co.jp I am mentioning this not as an advertisement (I try to buy readers from all the publishers that distribute in Japan) but as a way of let teachers know about something useful. It sure is easier to just order a set, then notice which books are popular and buy multiple copies of those during the next order season.

reluctant teachers [2]
Shounen
01/09/29 08:27
-> Well, for the students, I was quite impressed taht many of them were interested in teh idea of being provided of the "special" opportunity to practice (or maybe they prefer "training")reading in English. And they also liked being provided with the idea of extensive reading, like how many unknown words in each page, how much they have tp read,etc. Teachers on the other hand, they were really reluctant, I said taht the bookd were easy to read, lots of benefits, taht kind of thing, but what they say was about the lvel. I presume there were several reason for this. Basically, they do not have time. But the biggest thing is that their attitude towards reading were already so concrete to persuade that they also can change. Or... maybe they do not want to change...?
reluctant teachers [1]
Marc
01/09/26 17:45
-> This is really interesting (sad, but interesting). Did you do anything in particular to "persuade the students"?
reluctant teachers
Shounen
01/09/20 14:32
-> Hi, I recently had a chance to talk with Japanese teachers who teach English and showed some of the graded readers. The response to them wa amsingly negative. Many said that those are above their students' level. But I have got the impression htat they themselves are not good in reading. I tired to persuade them that the books are easy to read, enjoyable, but none of them seem to be impressed...(laugh) Anyway, I must say that it was much easier to persuade students tahn teachers to read the books.
know any recent correlative "reading is good for language devel" research? [1]
Julian
01/07/31 13:29
-> The mind-boggling extensive reading/TOEFL score correlation study is Gradman & Hanania, 1991 in MLJ. Did you check out the bibliography on this site: http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/information/er/biblio.html There may be some more recent studies. Day and Bamford (1998) has a list of 12 extensive reading studies (p. 34) that find gains in writing, vocabulary etc.—two of these are post-1994 (Rodrigo, 1995 and Mason & Krashen, 1997). BTW, if you know of any relevant studies that aren’t already included in the bibliography on this site, let us know so we can get them up there.
know any recent correlative "reading is good for language devel" research?
Rocky
01/07/19 12:23
-> Hi...I'd like know of any recently published research, probably correlative, showing how students that read a lot also do better with other types of language related skills, writing, comprehension etc. I have Krashen's the Power of Reading which goes up to '93, The SSR Handbook, Pilgreen cites an Elley '92 study of 27 countries...this seems a litle vague...there are also a couple of Lee, Krashen and Gibbons studies cited by Renyanda '96,97...showing correlation to TOEFL scores(actually I'd like to see one of these)...Does anyone know something more recent?..Thanks a lot
shelving books
Julian
01/06/23 09:26
-> I've just heard of a teacher who shelves books for extensive reading, not by difficulty level, but by subject and genre, as is done in a regular library or bookshop. But within each category, the books are still labelled for difficulty level. The students are reported to like it much better. Is anyone else doing this? If you partially or completely organize your library by categories other than difficulty level (or if you have another original way of organizing your library), I'd love to hear about it and about how students react.
electronic dictionary abuse [1]
Julian
01/06/19 13:36
-> Marc's message about weaker students overusing electronic dictionaries seems to support the idea of banning dictionaries outright when reading extensively. And for making sure weaker students are reading material they can understand and enjoy. Perhaps extensive reading isn't the right context for helping learners think about when to and when not to use dictionaries.
electronic dictionary abuse
Marc
01/06/05 10:06
-> I have noticed that a lot of my weaker students overuse their electronic dictionaries. The machines become the avenue of first resort of a tool to be used when (a) a word seem essential and (b) they can't figure the meaning out from context.

It seems to reinforce the "if I don't know every word, I can't really understand." This has always happened with print dictionaries but it seems even more of a problem with electronic dictionaries since they are so easy to use. Are other teachers noticing this? What do you do to encourage learners to think about when and when not to use their dictionaries.

Penguin Readers [4]
Marc
01/04/27 10:23
-> Oops. Just realized I wasn't clear about studnets checking their rating. There is a form on the inside cover of each books where students can check their rating. They can also write a comment if they want. So when students are looking for books, they can easily find out what other students think about each book. There is a copy of the form in the "Starting an ER program" section of this website. Click on the file of Forms Marc's students use.
Penguin Readers [3]
Marc
01/04/27 10:18
-> The library gives me a list of the top books by frequency of check out (their computer generates this). But since students check their rating (good, average, poor), other students have easy access to peer evaluations of the books. Popular books get read by a lot of people. Boring books die a quick and fairly painless death.

I hope some other people will let us know which titles (Penguin or not) are hot with their students.

Penguin Readers [2]
Julian
01/04/25 15:54
-> Thanks, Marc. Do you also keep tabs on popularity, or just frequency of check out?
Penguin Readers [1]
Marc
01/04/24 10:09
-> Three of my student's top five (by frequency of check out) last year were Penguins. They were (1) Babe - pig in the city (3) Prince of Egypt - brothers in Egypt (4) Men in black. Those might merit multiple copies.
Penguin Readers
Julian
01/04/23 11:08
-> My school is about to put in a big order for new graded readers, including a lot of the Penguin Readers which have been published over the last two or three years. Based on your students' reactions, does anyone have any suggestions for titles to avoid? Or to buy more than one copy of? For example, among the older Penguin titles, my students love "Girl Meets Boy," think "Run for your Life" is okay, and dislike "The Fox." Any information you have would be much appreciated. One more thing: have any of you had any success with any of the Penguin Young Readers with Japanese university students?
reading review [1]
Andy
01/04/02 10:25
-> Can I ask a favour? I've been writing a review of English reading pedagogy and research at the college and uni level in Japan, and would like to get some feedback before it goes into the final stages. If you'd like to read it through, and give some feedback, please contact me at <andyb@sakura.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp> Many thanks!

Also, if you know of any work or research by Japan-based people that I haven't cited (can be in a university kiyo, might be somewhere else)it would be good to include that.

Hypertextual graded readers [2]
Marc
01/03/21 10:58
-> I have a similar question/concern to Julians. At http://www.penguindossiers.com/, for example, there are some short readings (a new one each week). Very high interest topics. Much of the vocabulary is glossed with a hyperlink. Of course dictionaries have their uses, but so many students abuse dictionaries -- looking up every new word they meet and really believing they can't understand a text without doing so. Does making it easier to look up words help or hurt?
Hypertextual graded readers [1]
Julian
01/03/21 10:41
-> Good to read your interesting message and questions, Barbara. Here’s some possibly useful information: Penguin (Pearson Education) have "Prayer for the White Man," the "first ever on-line reader" slated to appear Feb 1st this year at www.penguinreaders.com You’ll be able to look at the design and aids to readers it provides.

I was also thinking—if hypertext and links are built around the reading experience, they could enrich it and even encourage further reading. But if they offer distractions from a reader engaging with the text, they could undermine the reading process. This is true with reading print books as well—when and how to gloss vocabulary is one of the most controversial aspects of graded readers, for example.

Good luck with the thesis!

Hypertextual graded readers
BARBARA
01/03/13 08:29
-> Hello, my neme is Barbara, I come from Spain and I´m writing a master´s thesis on the advantages of "on-line graded readers". I am writing about the benefits of extensive reading and, specially graded readers. But I also want to talk about the advantages of hypertext and how it could add to the benefits of extensive reading by providing students with an access to culturally interesting web sites in Spanish, rapid access to a glossary, images, sounds, etc. I have plenty of bibliography on extensive reading but not on hypertextual dessign of foreign language reading material. If anybody could provide any information I would appreciate it. Thank you.
vocabulary teaching (eltnews.com)

01/02/14 13:22
-> This month the Think Tank column at eltnews.com has a discussion of teaching vocabulary. ER is mentioned as a good way to work on it. The URL is: http://www.eltnews.com/columns/thinktank/index.shtml

(or just go to eltnew.com and click on 'Think tank'.)

reviewing readers [1]
Marc
01/01/31 09:26
-> Because of Julian's comment, I read 'Jojo's Story' last night. This is a really powerful book. I think it is also an exellent example of how a reader can have a low language level while still dealing with adult level topics. Even reading the first 3-4 pages will help people understand how graded readers really are 'language learner literature.' (I realize I haven't told you anything about the book. That really isn't my point. But I do highly recommend that you check it out.)
every once in a while
Marc
01/01/24 11:55
-> Every once in a while, something happens that makes you smile and say, "Yes. This is why I'm a teacher."

I was just going through final reading notebooks and came across the following note which a graduating jr. college student wrote to me. I think it reflects what we all are trying to do as teachers so I wanted to share it: "I had many English classes for these two years. I enjoyed each, and the also gave me many interests for learning English, but 'English Reading' is special for me. I mean, I'm what we call "bookworm" but when in entered I.C. [the department], I thought reading English was too difficult. And I didn't think I could enjoy it. But now, I love English reading and do appreciate the classes which encouraged me. Thanks again, and I'll keep on reading."

reviewing readers
Julian
01/01/24 10:52
-> Someone just told me that Jojo by Antoinette Moses (Cambridge Readers) is "the best reader ever." We tend to think of readers as just more ELT fodder, but in reality writers and publishers are hard at work crafting individual works of literature for language learners. I haven’t read "Jojo" but I plan to now and if it’s good I’ll add it to the school library. I’ll also write a short review and post it on this page. If you or your students have read some of the newer readers, I’d love to read short reviews of individual books on this page.
Guide to Graded Reading
Rob
01/01/11 10:57
-> Hello all.

Oxford University Press Japan have put a 'Guide to Graded Reading' on their website. It is a downloadable Adobe pdf file. It is also available in print - contact OUP directly. The English version. http://www.oupjapan.co.jp/jr_sr/pdf/Guide_to_Graded_Readers_e.pdf The Japanese version. http://www.oupjapan.co.jp/jr_sr/pdf/Guide_to_Graded_Readers_j.pdf Best regards Rob Waring

connected again! [1]
Mizuno Kunitaro
00/11/28 17:51
-> Thank you for your interest in IRC. Yes, I have been conducting another class named IWC(Interactive Writing Community). I would really appreciate that you would visit the following web site: http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~kmizuno/index_2000s.html

The motto of this class is "Write to be READ". In conventional composition class, the teacher is the only reader who reads the students' compositions and marks grammatical and lexical mistakes in red. In this class we struggle to write so as to be read by as many people as possible. We share our writing with each other and exchange our opinions in the classroom. And thanks to the BBS (Bulletin Board System) our ideas planted on the internet will be cultivated through interactions among people all over the world. This way writing to be read leads us to become aware of the various processes and purposes of writing, and the desire to write increases as the readers show their interests in the content of what we have written. Please join our interactive writing community on the BBS Web Site and let yourself become involved in an exciting and challenging writing experience !

ps
Karen Davies
00/11/28 13:35
-> I forgot to say that you knew me in Japan as Karen Eilertsen!
connected again!
Karen Davies
00/11/28 13:34
-> Hi everyone! After a circuitous route and amazing travels, I'm now in California teaching (part-time, alas!) at community colleges. I'm interested to glean anything I can from your chats to use in my classes. Also, I'd be interested to know if there are any US-based reading sites/chat groups like this one. ?? My email is karenire@pacbell.net. I welcome hearing from any of you. Karen
Japanese terms [3]
Beniko
00/11/28 12:31
-> This is a joint posting from Beniko and Julian in the form of a dialog. It starts with more on Japanese terms for ER:

B: Extensive reading (Tadoku in Japanese) has also been called "Hakudoku" in the past. Graded readers used to be called "Plateau Readers."

J: Plateau readers is a term Michael West used--I guess the term (and the books) were imported to Japan, probably by Harold Palmer when he was here in the 1920s and 30s.

B: Books were also produced here. I have a couple of pages from a reader, edited by Saburo Hoshiyama, dated 1960.

ER was practiced in the Meiji period and continued to be used in Taisho period (according to Matsumura's "Eigo no Reading," Taishukan, 1984). In the early Showa period, they had something called The Reading Approach. In this approach, they understood ER to be 10-pages-per-class instead of 2-pages-per-class reading.

J: Again, the Reading Approach was probably an import in the early 1930s when it was the innovative method of choice in U.S. language education.

B: I wish someone could tell me why ER did not have the power to creep into the core curriculum of English education in Japan.

NoSubject
Mizuno Kunitaro
00/11/26 03:49
-> Thank you for reading my message and asking me questions about IRC. Although I am going to answer your specific questions, you can fully understand the philosophy of IRC and the method of teaching practice by reading my paper("Extensive Reading Program for making Japanese students into independent readers"written in Japanese) linked on the indexpage of IRC, 1. Are you working with English majors or what type of program is it? They are not English major students. The three classes I have been teaching this semester are elective. They chose my class from among those offered, one of which they have to take to graduate from the university. 2. Where do students access the books (library, available in the class room?)? When I was teaching at Sophia Junior College last year, I put all the books(about 300 books) in the library. The librarians helped me to conduct this class. Now I bring all the books into the computer room from the office, and they choose which books to read for the next week during the class. I check out every book they borrow like a librarian. 3. Do you have a minimum reading goal everyone must meet? Yes. They basicaly read a book a week, so they are supposed to read 13 books by the end of semester.(If the distance of the book is more than 30 km, they can read the book for two weeks.) I tell them at the beginning of the semester about the evaluation in the following way: In order to pass this class, you have to read at least 13 books or 130 km. If you want to get a A, it is required for you to read more than 18 books or 180 km. It should be added that in order to get an A, their final report must be well written(you can read them if you click on the page "achievements" on the index page). Fortunately, almost every student reaches the goal every semester and more than 80 percent of the students get A's. 4. Do students receive credit for their BBS entries automatically? Participation in the BBS is just one part of Interactive Reading Community. Class attendance is extremely important. They make a group of 3 to 4 among the classmates and talk about the book they have read for 15 minutes. Then some of them stand in front of the whole class and tell us about the book. Who is going to tell us the story today? They pick an OMIKUJI at the beginning of the class!

5. The postings I read were quite substantial. Do you have any system for judging the quality of what they submit? My students will be happy to hear your praise! I give them some articles which might help them write a good reaction report. I also give them some copies of good reaction reports written by the members who took IRC in the past. But I don't think that I do anything special. I beleive that their attitude toward "writing and reading" gradually changes from the environment of the classroom and the BBS. They write not to me but to the participants of IRC. "Write to be READ" by the other members of IRC who MAY read the same book because of their reaction reports can have a tremendous impact on what to write and how to write about books. If you read their final report, you can understand how much students enjoy reading in an environment where they can express and share their reaction to the books on the BBS as well as in the classroom. They read and write to "communicate" with each other. 6. Do replies to an earlier posting count as entries for the reading race? Yes. They can get 2km when they post a comment on a reaction report or a comment. Well, like I mentioned, my reflection on IRC is written in the paper. And finally I must tell you that in order to implement IRC, I read over and over again the book "Extensive Reading in the Second Language Classroom" by Julian Baford and Richard R. Day. Without reading this book, I would not have carried out the idea of IRC.

NoSubject
Mizuno Kunitaro
00/11/26 03:49
-> Thank you for reading my message and asking me questions about IRC. Although I am going to answer your specific questions, you can fully understand the philosophy of IRC and the method of teaching practice by reading my paper("Extensive Reading Program for making Japanese students into independent readers"written in Japanese) linked on the indexpage of IRC, 1. Are you working with English majors or what type of program is it? They are not English major students. The three classes I have been teaching this semester are elective. They chose my class from among those offered, one of which they have to take to graduate from the university. 2. Where do students access the books (library, available in the class room?)? When I was teaching at Sophia Junior College last year, I put all the books(about 300 books) in the library. The librarians helped me to conduct this class. Now I bring all the books into the computer room from the office, and they choose which books to read for the next week during the class. I check out every book they borrow like a librarian. 3. Do you have a minimum reading goal everyone must meet? Yes. They basicaly read a book a week, so they are supposed to read 13 books by the end of semester.(If the distance of the book is more than 30 km, they can read the book for two weeks.) I tell them at the beginning of the semester about the evaluation in the following way: In order to pass this class, you have to read at least 13 books or 130 km. If you want to get a A, it is required for you to read more than 18 books or 180 km. It should be added that in order to get an A, their final report must be well written(you can read them if you click on the page "achievements" on the index page). Fortunately, almost every student reaches the goal every semester and more than 80 percent of the students get A's. 4. Do students receive credit for their BBS entries automatically? Participation in the BBS is just one part of Interactive Reading Community. Class attendance is extremely important. They make a group of 3 to 4 among the classmates and talk about the book they have read for 15 minutes. Then some of them stand in front of the whole class and tell us about the book. Who is going to tell us the story today? They pick an OMIKUJI at the beginning of the class!

5. The postings I read were quite substantial. Do you have any system for judging the quality of what they submit? My students will be happy to hear your praise! I give them some articles which might help them write a good reaction report. I also give them some copies of good reaction reports written by the members who took IRC in the past. But I don't think that I do anything special. I beleive that their attitude toward "writing and reading" gradually changes from the environment of the classroom and the BBS. They write not to me but to the participants of IRC. "Write to be READ" by the other members of IRC who MAY read the same book because of their reaction reports can have a tremendous impact on what to write and how to write about books. If you read their final report, you can understand how much students enjoy reading in an environment where they can express and share their reaction to the books on the BBS as well as in the classroom. They read and write to "communicate" with each other. 6. Do replies to an earlier posting count as entries for the reading race? Yes. They can get 2km when they post a comment on a reaction report or a comment. Well, like I mentioned, my reflection on IRC is written in the paper. And finally I must tell you that in order to implement IRC, I read over and over again the book "Extensive Reading in the Second Language Classroom" by Julian Baford and Richard R. Day. Without reading this book, I would not have carried out the idea of IRC.

Oxford University Press Guide to Graded Reading [1]
Marc
00/11/25 16:11
-> I've read the Guide Rob is referring to and want to recommend it to everyone. It is really good (and I write for a different publisher so you know this isn't just hype).
Oxford University Press Guide to Graded Reading
Rob
00/11/25 12:18
-> Hi all

Oxford University Press in Japan (http://www.oupjapan.co.jp) have just published a free 20 page guide to Graded Reading. It is available on request in English or Japanese. there will soon be a downloadable version. best regards Rob

Invitation to Interactive Reading Community [1]
Ken Schmidt
00/11/22 09:59
-> Kunitaro Mizuno's Interactive Reading Community Site is really impressive. I highly recommend everyone check it out. I've been trying to figure out how to implement something like this, and it's a great help.

Mizuno-sensei, here are a few more questions about your program which I've also sent to you by personal e-mail: Are you working with English majors or what type of program is it? Where do students access the books (library, available in the class room?)? Do you have a minimum reading goal everyone must meet? Do students receive credit for their BBS entries automatically? The postings I read were quite substantial. Do you have any system for judging the quality of what they submit? Can they submit a four word sentence and that satisfies their requirement? Do replies to an earlier posting count as entries for the reading race? How do you introduce the program and help students get excited about reading and about posting their thoughts? Great work, and I hope to hear/read more about your program!

Japanese terms [2]
Beniko
00/11/21 20:54
-> ER is called Tadoku in Japanese. I think it is better to separate it from Sokudoku which is speed reading. Japanese people usually think extensive reading is used to practice speed reading, but I don’t think that is what ER is. Speed comes as the result of ER, but we don’t "practice" speed while we do ER.

Tadoku is recommended as something to do in schools in the guidelines from the Ministry of Education, and they call it Tadoku. (It is recommended, not required.)

I found out that Japanese people first did Tadoku about 70 years ago. At that time, there was not enough reading material of the right kind and at the right levels. They called graded readers something, but I can’t remember the exact term they used right now. If I find it, I’ll write again.

Invitation to Interactive Reading Community
Mizuno Kunitaro
00/11/20 13:07
-> Hi! My name is Mizuno Kunitaro, an English instructor at Keio University, SFC. I would like to introduce myself to join the Extensive Reading Chat Room. I have been conducting a class named "Interactive Reading Community(IRC)," which is an Extensive Reading Project using BBS on the internet. http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~kmizuno/irc/index.html The use of BBS enables the participants of IRC to be supportive within and outside of the classes. We also compete in a race of "Reading Marathon." Each book has its own "reading distance" and the distance of each book is added to the graph of each student when they post a reaction report about the book they have read on the BBS. Please visit our homepage! If you are interested to join IRC, I am happy to receive your email. CYL01642@nifty.ne.jp

Thank you. Mizuno Kunitaro

Japanese terms [1]
Tom Robb
00/11/18 13:41
-> I have been using "tadoku kyoujuho" for the "Extensive Reading Method." I don't use graded readers, so someone else will have to help out there!
Japanese terms
Brett
00/11/17 13:27
-> It seems to me that for Japanese language teachers (JLT), extensive reading is simply not a concept. The word "tadoku" is often used as a translation, but I think it has different associations for JLTs than the English "extensive reading". I've also seen katakana, but that's not very useful unless you already understand the concept. Can anybody come up with a good translation? Also one for "graded readers" and "graded reading".
ER colloquium at JALT
Marc
00/10/27 15:18
-> People who are attending the JALT conference in Shizuoka Japan next week will be interested in the ER colloquium: Extensive Reading in Practice. It will be Friday, Nov. 3, from 3:15 to 5:00 in Room 1001-2. Several of the people active with this web site will be speaking. For information on the JALT conference, visit h ttp://jalt.org/JALT2000/
my web page
Nicolas Cueto
00/10/14 21:29
-> Hope this doesn't appear too self-serving but I finished some bi-lingual web-pages describing our JHS ER programme (and other things) and was hoping to somehow promote both them and, in turn, the use of ER at Japanese JHS (hence the Japanese pages). They're at http://www.alles.or.jp/~kweto. I welcome feedback as well as link-ups with other ER pages or simply passing on the word (especially to secondary school JTE's... ER _can_ work even at this level!). Thank you.
Assessing ER
Rob
00/10/09 20:45
-> There is paper that reviews 28 ER research studies available for comment at

http://www1.harenet.ne.jp/~waring/papers/assesser.html Please send comment to waring@harenet.ne.jp Thank-you

extensive REreading [5]
Carolyn
00/10/06 02:02
-> People may be interested in a survey of childrens' reading habits carried out in the UK and reported in 'Children's Reading Choices by Christine Hall, Martin Coles (1998 RoutledgeFalmer; ISBN: 0415183871) in which rates of rereading amongst children aged 10-14 are reported. The data are given for sex, age, social class and ability. As far as I remember, girls reread more than boys, and children who read more also reread more. As far as my own daughter is concerned (aged 12) she will reread series books (Sweet Valley, Enid Blyton, Babysitters Club) ad infinitum. She does it for relaxation, and admits it's 'easy'. She has in fact become an extremely fast reader and I wonder whether it's because she has reread so much.
extensive REreading [4]
Julian
00/09/23 14:21
-> Reading a German book 10 times (to use the example Andy quoted) might be a great study strategy and involve a lot of reading, but is it extensive reading? I'd say an extensive reading approach to reading/language study by definition involves a learner's search for pleasure or information as a goal, and the learner's personal response to the text as the reward. Which is not to say that students don't take on extensive reading primarily or solely as a means to improve their target language ability.

Separate to this, maybe my guarded response to the idea of encouraging rereading comes from being here in Japan. A number of new-to-extensive reading students want to reread a book because they don't think they understood it "well enough" the first time. When pressed they say they don't actually want to do the rereading, so I interpret their original wish as a holdover from JHS/HS practices where texts are expected to be understood 100% in terms of content, grammar and vocabulary. This would not be an issue in Marc's elective class, however, as his students are used to extensive reading.

Andy raised the point that reading books in the same vocabulary band might approach the conditions Marc is looking for. J.E. Clark raises a similar point when he talks of reading books in the same series with the same characters (e.g. Babysitters Club; Sweet Valley High). This is close to the "narrow reading" of the same author proposed by Krashen (in a TESOL Newsletter article I can't locate right now). Maybe these sorts of reading have some of the positive pedagogical impact of rereading without the affective downside??

Finally, Clark raises the point that kids love to reread kidlit and do it a lot. Marc's Alice in Wonderland has some of the same characteristics and appeal to adults. I'll add that adults reread spiritual and religious texts. If rereading equals big learning, is there a kind of book that can be written for language learners that will awaken their child-like or spiritual desire to reread?

Rereading
J.E. Clark
00/09/22 22:41
-> I was thinking more about what I said yesterday on rereading. If you are unsure about using rereading, look at books such as Hank the Cowdog, the Babysitters club, The Boxcar Children, or even Sweet Valley High. Series books that keep the main characters and setting can allow the reader to become familiar with the whole series while enjoying new plot lines. This familiarity may help to lower the cognitive demands on the reader by allowing them to access relevant background knowledge. Accessing background knowledge may allow the student to work on fluency issues while they explore a new adventure. Once the student gets hooked on a particular series, watch out, they will want more and more.
extensive REreading [3]
J.E.Clark
00/09/22 04:43
-> I am not quite sure if I understand what you are saying when you stated "we don't reread for pleasure." It has been my personal experience that I do reread for pleasure. I will reread a book that I have read years before. I have reread books several times over the period of my life. It has also been my observation that young children will reread for pleasure. As a parent and as a junior high school teacher I can not tell you how many times I have seen both my children and my students reread for pleasure. I believe that we do reread for pleasure. In fact, I think we do it because we expect it to gain more from the second, third, and fourth reading. As we reread we start to master the book in a way that may even help compel us to read it again.
REreading
Andy
00/09/21 14:07
-> Hello, just adding a few thoughts on the re-reading discussion here <p>

What's the difference between re-reading the same book and reading different books within the same band of vocabulary? Maybe the answer to that question might offer some food for thought. Second, how do you objectively measure gains in comprehension? Third, how might you measure vocabulary gains objectively?

There was one study done with Clockwork Orange on repeated readings, claiming that students gained in vocabulary through re-reading (Saragi, Nation & Meister, 1978). One study that was presented at the Swansea PhD conference in July was by Marlise Horst (based in Canada) with a German reader. She had the student read the book 10 times, and each time measured the vocabulary gains. How? At the outset she created a stoplist of all the words that occurred only once in the book. She then created a computer-based test where the student clicked one of the following for each of the 'singletons', something along the lines of: know very well / know somewhat / know but not sure / don't know. The student completed the vocab test pre and post each reading. Consistent gains were made, and consistent movements were made up the scale for degrees of knowledge, with some predictions possible of vocab. gains. Note the student was asked and pledged to have no contact with German other than through reading the book during the period of the study. Horst found much better vocabulary gains with this study than are usually reported for ER, and part of this may be that she could isolate unknown words at the start, plus measure gains in degree of vocabulary knowledge. (Marlise also used a translation test as an independent check, I believe.)

extensive REreading [2]
Marc
00/09/21 11:45
-> Julian asks: "What is the affective toll in terms of missed opportunities to hook students on books?"

I don't know. Not sure if it will be a tool or a tool. That's one of the reasons I'm thinking about a research project about this. I know common sense says we don't reread for pleasure (However, I wonder how many times I've reread Alice in Wonderland). But some things we do redo for pleasure. I think about how many of my students have see Titanic many times. It isn't like they think in ain't gonna sink next time. Movies are one reason I'm thinking about this. I've noticed is how popular movie tie-ins are as readers. What very often happens is students read the book version of a film they've already seen. They already know the story. The fact that they know it make it that much easier to read -- the schema is already in place. But they do read and enjoy it. I'm wondering what will happen in the classroom (I should mention this is with an elective class so learners have already made the choice to be in a class where they have to read 500+ pages per term). And this is totally the students' choice. They don't have to reread anything. But they have that choice.

extensive REreading [1]
Julian
00/09/21 11:23
-> Responding to Marc 4 messages below. My initial reaction to rereading is guarded because, unlike, say, academic reading, rereading is rarely a part of recreational reading in the real world. People do occasionally reread a favorite book (usually a lengthy period after the previous reading), but the real-world equivalent of classroom extensive reading depends heavily on novelty. It always sets alarm bells ringing for me when classroom practice strays too far from ordinary human behavior and motivation. Based on the results of timed repeated readings (students read the same passage for a minute three times, returning to the beginning of the passage each time) I'd expect your students to report that when rereading, they read faster and understand more compared to reading the first time. I'm not sure what that tells us, though, except than that increased fluency and comprehension are a by-product of rereading. Hopefully through classroom extensive reading, some students discover the pleasure and value of reading. But what will they discover by rereading? What is their motivation for choosing that option? The points?--doubtful as students only get half the initial points for rereading, and they cannot reread at over twice the initial speed without cutting corners. The only motivation for rereading that I can imagine is a lazy unadventurousness. Every new book begun is a journey into the unknown. Rather than face that, some students might prefer the safety of the familiar, robbing themselves of chances to discover the pleasure and value of reading. Bottom line: What is the message that rereading sends to students? What is the affective toll in terms of missed opportunities to hook students on books?
asking for extensive reading lesson plan [1]
Julian
00/09/07 08:38
-> Yi xie, have you seen the book "Extensive Reading in the Second Language Classroom" (Day & Bamford, 1998, Cambridge University Press). More than half is about putting extensive reading into practice, and Ch. 11-13 (pp. 118-155) are about planning lessons. But if you've seen the book and have more specific questions, please ask them.
asking for extensive reading lesson plan
yi xie
00/08/19 20:31
-> I am trying to find some ways to improve the teaching extensive reading lesson plan. Does anyone give me some suggestion?
Readers in text books
Jeremy
00/08/18 06:15
-> Alas Marc, I have forgotten where I saw them, but I am sure there was more than one.

I have had 12 readers published and get anything from 6% to 10% as a royalty. I now have a plan to self publish and advertise on the net. Has anyone tried this? Anything I should look out for? Any tips or advice gratefully received. jeremytaylor@esatclear.ie http://www.esatclear.ie/~jeremytaylor

extensive REreading
Marc
00/07/12 09:00
-> Is anyone doing anything with having student reread books?

I'm thinking of trying this out with an elective class next term. The idea is that reread book(s) they've read before. This time they report on what they got/noticed/felt the 2nd time through. They'll get half the points they got the first time. Anyone done this sort of thing? Advice?

readers with kids
Marc
00/07/07 13:58
-> There's a new article on using readers with kids at www.eltnews.com

The URL is: http://www.eltnews.com/kids/kidsmain.html

Textbooks with readers [1]    Respond
marc
00/06/27 08:49
-> Readers in the back of textbooks? Haven't seen that here in Asia (although a few years ago OUP put in reader in a textbook as a serial -- one segment per chapter). Jeremy, can you tell us more about this. Which books? Is there a tie between the reader and the syllabus, etc.

Movie tie-ins? My students love them. They've often seen the film which provides the schema. They often pick up on differences between the film and the reader.

Textbooks with readers
Jeremy
00/06/24 04:14
-> I have noticed that quite a few publishers are now putting a reader into the back of their text books. Is this just a gimmick or a useful addition the textbook? I wrote a series of five readers based on the characters from a German publisher. I am happy with the stories and the illstrations but not with the promotion. Is there anything that can compete with the movie tie ins?? Regards Jeremy jeremytaylor@esatclear.ie http://www.esatclear.ie/~jeremytaylor
Charity that clicks (a web page for students)
marc
00/06/17 21:23
-> You probably already know about some of the charity sites on the Internet that let you feed hungry people, save the rainforest, etc. for free. You just click on a button. Sponsors pay for your contribution.

I've added a page to my home page to teach students about some of these sites. I've tried to write it in a way students can understand. I'd like to invite you (and your students) to visit it. The URL is: http://www.mgu.ac.jp/~ic/helgesen/charity.htm I should mention that this page is based in Japan. If you're using a computer that doesn't read Japanese, there will be a few random "@" marks. Ignore them. (or send me an email telling me how to get rid of them. I hope you and your students check out the page. It's a really cool way to make a difference. Thanks. Marc

ER on the Web [2]
Tom Robb
00/06/01 16:13
-> I've been holding my extensive reading class in the lab this year, too. I've developed a page with useful links which anyone is welcome to adapt to their own needs. The URL:http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~trobb/read/read.html

In my case, I have the students generate a memo via a form once they have read each page, give the URL, a rating for interest and difficulty, plus a place for them to enter any new English they learned as well as a window for them to enter a summary or their thoughts on the page. Please ask me for a temporary PW if you would like to see the site in more detail.

You can see the visuals for a presentation I recently made on this project at http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~trobb/LET/LET0500.html

ER activities
Julian
00/06/01 10:06
-> This is to remind everyone there's a month to go before the deadline for submissions to "Extensive Reading Activities" (ERA). ERA is a resource book for foreign language teachers with activities based on students selecting their own material for extensive reading. Editors Richard Day and myself have received some terrific classroom-tested activities and there's still time to add yours. It might be a way of running a library, a post-reading task, a way to evaluate or keep track of reading, a way to encourage students to read, or a way to use the Internet to support extensive reading. Below this message, J.E. Clark suggests making your own web page with links to sites suitable for students' reading. That's a perfect ERA! Please do write it up and send it in! We are confident that ERA will be placed with a major ELT publisher and that it will be a major contribution to foreign language pedagogy. Be a part of it! All royalties from the sale of ERA will be used to promote extensive reading. For details of how to submit a contribution before June 30th, see http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/information/er/eracall.html
ER on the Web [1]
J.E. Clark
00/05/26 22:51
-> Marc, here is an idea that might work for you. Create your own link page. Geocities.com is one place that gives you a free web site. On your web site create a link pages to other sites that you have previewed and already know are comprehensible for your students. A link site will help prevent hours of endless searches that bring a lot of inappropriate sites. This takes some time but you may find your own link site to be worth a lot in the long run.
ER on the Web
marc
00/05/24 23:33
-> Last month I moved a college ER class into an Internet lab. The students are doing extensive reading outside of class and in class, I'm working on having them read on the web.

So far, I've been guiding them to comprehensible websites. I'm looking for ways to make the students more independent without having them end up at incomprehensible (i+50 rather than i- 1) sites. Can other teachers give me feedback/ideas based on your experience? (a). Do you have your students use kids' search engines(ask jeeves 4 kids [ajkids.com], yahooligans, ClickKids, etc.) as a way of finding non-fiction sites? How do you introduce them? Advice? (b). I've already got the students working in pairs to help each other negotiate meaning. Other suggestions? Thanks.

Reading Panel Report against SSR [1]
J.E. Clark
00/04/28 04:03
-> Thanks for this bit of information. I finished reading the chapter devoted to fluency and am appalled at their apparent attack on extensive reading. I find it difficult to believe that the report suggests that practice is the result of becoming a good reader (p 3-10; 3-21).

I am a junior high school teacher and know well that students need time to understand what free voluntary reading (FVR) is all about. Students need time to get used to this freedom. Students need time to learn how to look for books and when to put a book back when it does not interest them. Students also need time to expand the amount of time that they engage in FVR. One study identified in this report only lasted 10 weeks. This is not enough time to study FVR. I agree with Dr. Krashen when he pointed out this discrepancy in the report. The report seems to miss an important fact of oral reading activities. Students who participate in oral reading who are not actively engaged in reading orally may be following along silently thus increasing the amount of reading practice during oral reading activities. The need to work in small groups for more one on one oral reading time is also cost prohibitive. Schools are not going to provide the resources for one on one work such as was used in most of the studies identified in the report. The negative affects (such as anxiety) of round robin oral reading with large groups may have more devastating long-term affects on life long love of reading than positive effects. The report seems to have an agenda that precludes the use of whole language.

use of the L1
George
00/04/24 11:12
-> I wonder what people think of students using the L1 when they discuss books they have read for ER. For many of us, the answer to the question of whether or not to try to discourage L1 use will depend on the context and on the relative power statuses of the L1 and the L2, and students' L2 proficiency. Please refer to that in your reply. For instance, when I do ER with Vietnamese studying English in Singapore, I encourage them to speak English all the time. They are roughly intermediate level, thus they have the proficiency to use English. Further, these adults are in no danger of losing their L1. I explain to them why using the L2 provides input for groupmates and output for them. We discuss the matter, and everyone readily agrees that they should use the L2. They then sign a voluntary pledge to do so.
Reading Panel Report against SSR    Respond
Tom Robb
00/04/23 10:07
-> Stephen Krashen has submitted a rebuttal to the recent (U.S.) National Reading Panel (NRP) report on reading which concludes that "it is not clear that children can become better readers by reading silently to themselves" ("Reading Panel Urges Phonics for All in K-6", Education Week, April 19, 2000). Despite their repeated claims of rigor and completeness, the NRP report contains numerous errors and omissions.

For the complete text, please see this link. See http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/nrp/findings.htm for the report, itself.

Resource
George
00/04/21 10:38
-> http://www.readingonline.org/articles/nagy/

Here's an article on ER in the IRA electronic journal Reading Online.

ER at TESOL - Vancouver [2]
J.E. Clark
00/03/22 03:51
-> Yes, I went to the extensive reading colloquim in Vancouver. I thought it was a great presentation. They provided a nice overview. Gave some books away too. Two problems however; the first problem was the conflict with the open town meeting with David Nunan; the second problem was Richard Day's book on extensive reading was not on hand with the publishers at their display. I did like what I saw and found this site as a result. I will spend hours going through these pages and I will pass the url on to the rest of my department.
ER at TESOL - Vancouver [1]
Julian
00/03/21 16:25
-> How did the extensive reading colloquium at TESOL Vancouver (3/17/00) go? Could someone who attended give us a summary?
Action Research - Japan
andy
00/02/25 17:34
-> Action Research Retreat: Teacher Autonomy, Learner Autonomy April 22 and 23, 2000

Details:

This retreat will be a series of participant-centered workshops on action research (AR), led by Andy Curtis from the Department of English, Hong Kong Polytechnic University, and in association with JALT's Teacher Education and Learner Development Special Interest Groups. Cosponsored by JALT Ibaraki chapter. Workshops will be geared to people both new to action research and familiar with action research. There will be plenty of time and chances for pair and group discussions, as well as plenary sessions, informal networking, and socializing.

Sessions will include such themes as:

Doing classroom-based/action research in classrooms in Japan: Identifying areas for exploration and change; designing and conducting research studies;

Working with classroom data: Designing ways of collecting, analyzing and presenting such data;

Writing about AR and sharing with a wider audience.

The first session will begin Sat. morning. It is advisable, but not required, that participants arrive the night before.

Location: British Hills, Fukushima
Date: April 22 and 23 (arrive 4/21 eve. if possible)
Contact: Colin GrahamTel: 0248-85-1313 Fax: 0248-85-1300
Further Information: colin_japan@hotmail.com
Website: http://members.xoom.com/jalt_teach/workshop.htm

ER at TESOL - Vancouver
marc
00/02/23 12:07
-> Several people who are involved with this list will be speaking at the Extensive Reading colloquium at the TESOL conference in Vancouver.

The information is as follows: Friday, March 17, 2000 4:00 - 5:45 p.m. Convention Centre, Ballroom C Speakers will include Richard Day , Beniko Mason, Thomas Robb, Ken Schmidt and myself. We hope to see a lot of ERer's there. (ERer's?)

Extensive Reading Listserve
Andy
00/02/19 12:04
-> Since yesterday, there is a listserve for extensive reading, run by Hugh Nicoll in Miyazaki, Kyushu. The name of the list is ER-List. Thank you Hugh for organising this! Details:

ER-List is up and working with a regular and digest function available. To subscribe to the regular list, interested parties should send a message to requests@cedar.miyazaki-mu.ac.jp with the line subscribe ER-List in the body of the message. The command for the digest is subscribe digest ER-List The mail server software is intelligent enough to ignore signature files, so they won't cause interference in the subscription process.

American Readers? [1]
Julian
00/02/15 09:56
-> The only U.S. series of readers recently in print is HBJ's New Readers. With all the publisher's buyouts, I don't know who handles HBJ now. Don't know any readers produced in Japan. There are a lot of series produced in Asia, especially Hong Kong. And a lot in Africa. David Hill lists the best of these series with publishers' contact information, on pp. 213-217 of Day & Bamford's Extensive Reading in the Second Language Classroom (1998, Cambridge University Press).
American Readers?
Jeremy
00/02/15 04:44
-> First of all thank you very much to Julian for his excellent response. I agree with putting the words in 'darker black!' and then providing a glossary. I always write intuitively. If you have your head stuck in vocab lists then your readers will be as bland as... well as we all know who. Excuse my ignorance but are there any big American/Japanese anywhere else publishers producing original readers? I would love to have a look at some. jeremytaylor@esatclear.ie http://www.esatclear.ie/~jeremytaylor
A writer of readers.. [1]
Julian
00/02/14 12:03
-> In response to Jeremy: 1. Should words in readers be glossed? David Hill's excellent overview of readers (Survey review: Graded readers, David R. Hill, ELT Journal Vol. 51, No. 1, January 1997, pp. 57-81) has this to say (on p. 65): "Several series give support with vocabulary. Some mark 'difficult' words in the text but do not put them in a glossary, others provide a glossary but do not mark the words in the text, while others mark the word and put them in a glossary. Editors are ready to go to the barricades in defence of their policy, but the only one that makes any sense to me is to mark the text and have a glossary." 2. How rigidly should an editor stick to the grammar and vocabulary lists? The original editors of two of the most successful series (John Milne, Heinemann Guided Readers; Tricia Hedge, Oxford Bookworms) both favor an intuitive approach to writing. Hedge: "Write the first part of your story intuitively, with a certain level of language learner in mind, and then see which level in the series it fits." Milne: "Writers are not asked to apply structure controls rigidly and automatically. Instead, writers are expected to have constant. . . [recourse] to their intuitive feeling for language and hold a balance between those structures necessary for the telling of a particular story and those which might cause students insurmountable difficulty."# On the other hand, as Hill points out (p. 62), the strength of readers "as a resource for language learning derives from the thoroughness with which the wordlists and structure lists are compiled, and the care with which they are applied."# These two views might not be irreconcilable as they seem, however. Writing must be intuitive if it is to be successful. After writing, it is very helpful to consult the lists to find out what words and structures you used that may not be known by your target readership. You may want to reconsider their use.
ER questionnaires
Andy
00/02/11 12:38
-> Marc posted here a while back a short questionnaire that he uses with his students. Are there any questionnaires on ER that have been fully piloted and validated, for pre- and post- course comparison, covering things like time spent on reading, sense of motivation, enjoyment, reading techniques used etc.? <p>

Just asking as a few teachers are trying to combine quantitative and qualitative research methods. One other question is to do with checking vocabulary size, pre and post: any user friendly time-efficient vocabulary tests in the making or published, other than Nation's?

A writer of readers..
Jeremy
00/02/11 06:18
-> I am new to the list and have a couple of points that I would welcome comments on. 1. Do you feel that words in readers should be glossed? 2. How rigid should an editor stick to the grammar and vocabulary lists? 3. Is anyone familiar with the Richmond Readers (published by the British part of Santilliana) or the Teen Reader series, published by Aschehoug and distributed across Europe by big educational publishers. Any views on them? That's all for now. jeremytaylor@esatclear.ie http://www.esatclear.ie/~jeremytaylor

Awards for ELT GradedReaders [1]    Respond
George
00/02/08 14:45
-> Just a few thoughts

1. Have you gotten any response from various organizations, e.g., IATEFL?

2. Having students be the judges is a nice twist. Perhaps, teachers can nominate the books (with an eye to what students like) and then students would choose the winners. Are you concerned about representation of different types of students: age, nationality, sex.

3. What do you see as the characteristics of language learner literature? Can it be differentiated from other literature, e.g., Sweet Valley?

4. Would it be good to have one category for original works and another for adapted ones?

Awards for ELT Graded Readers
8 teachers
00/02/06 14:46
-> An Open Letter

We, an ad hoc group of ELT professionals, believe it is time to establish awards for English language graded readers. Below are some ideas. Your suggestions or comments would be much appreciated. Send them to Julian Bamford <bamford@shonan.bunkyo.ac.jp>. Let us know if you wish to be part of further discussions and developments.

Yours sincerely,
  Julian Bamford, Andy Barfield, Simon Evans, Marc Helgesen, Siusana Kweldju, Beniko Mason, Paul Nation, Rob Waring.

1. GOALS OF THE AWARD

  1. To encourage high standards in books written for EFL/ESL learners by recognizing authors and publishers for quality writing and excellence in production.
  2. To forward the view that reading material written for language learners is a legitimate genre in its own right, and is a literature in the same way as children's literature and young adult literature.
  3. To promote extensive reading as an effective means of helping language learners.
  4. To foster understanding of what learners and teachers value in reading material.

2. ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE

Ideally the awards would be under the auspices of an appropriate independent organization or publication (e.g. IATEFL; TESOL; EPER [The Edinburgh Project on Extensive Reading]; Reading in a Foreign Language journal; EL Gazette). There would be a small Awards Committee of notable scholars and teachers to oversee and give validity to the prize. And there would be a working committee of concerned ELT professionals to do the day-to-day work. Work would be on a volunteer basis, with the minimal costs borne by the institutions at which the volunteers work.

3. TYPE OF AWARD.

The award could be non-monetary, in the form of a certificate and permission to put a label on the prize-winning book. A simple award logo would be designed.

4. NUMBER OF AWARDS

One suggestion is that each year awards be given to all new books of particular merit. Another suggestion is that awards be given to categories of books, e.g. fiction, non-fiction, books for beginners, books for children.

In the initial years, a number of extra awards would also be given to graded readers published in past years.

5. NOMINATING AND JUDGING

The guiding principle is that, in nominating and/or judging, students are the ones who make the choices. One possible system is for up to a certain number of newly-published books to be nominated by each publisher who sends them to participating schools where students judge them. Another system would be that teachers and students nominate books which are then judged either at participating schools or by an expert panel.

In class activities? [2]    Respond
Tom R
00/02/03 22:02
-> Julian asks why I use the SRA program. I use it because I think it is *good* reading practice. The readings are short but fairly interesting and the students can, via the comprehension questions and other exercises with the material get immediate feedback on how well they have read. Furthermore, the readings are carefully graded by level of difficulty so the students themselves can see their progress clearly as they move up in the levels. There was one student, for example, who had studied in the U.S. up to the 8th grade. He whizzed through the SRA materials, but miraculously, once he got to the eighth grade level found the going much tougher, and had to do many more of the readings at that level before getting 'promoted' to the next.

Basically, if I had a choice between a textbook which was just readings with exercises after each reading, I would surely choose the SRA materials instead since they allow the students the freedom to choose topics that appeal to them (there are 15 readings at each level and then can move up if they do a minimum of 4 of them ' successfully'. The SRA materials also allow them to progress at their own pace rather than forcing them to read 'lock step' with the rest of the class.

Thus the SRA materials are in many ways a type of 'extensive' reading, I feel, and we treated them as such in Robb & Susser (1989).

Right now, I am facing a situation where I will have a class of 45 'repeaters' and many of them have already gone through the SRA materials to a certain extent, so I'd like to try something different this time around. Thus my query.

In class activities? [1]
Julian
00/02/02 14:32
-> I don't have a reading class but as no one has responded yet, I thought I'd give it a shot. If I had an extensive reading class at my university, like you I'd have students read fiction outside class. In class, I'd definitely have students meet in groups of 3 or 4 to report to each other on the books they'd read. That way, they regularly get suggestions for books to read in future based on peer recommendation. Those group book reports would take about 15 minutes. And for the rest of the class? What, I'd ask myself do these students need in order to be better readers, to enjoy it more, and to get more out of it? And what are their future English reading needs going to be? If they were TOEFL low 400s, I might help them become better readers with bigger vocabularies by using class readers (all students reading the same book under teacher guidance). If they were high 400s I might also have them get English-language e-mail pals, and share their letters and replies in class in groups. If they were at the TOEFL 500+ level and needed to enjoy reading more and connect it to their lives, and if I had the resources, I might have an in-class individual reading time (i.e. SSR for 30 to 45 minutes) using current newspapers, magazines and the Internet. Ending with students in small groups reporting on what they'd just been reading. They might discover new pleasures and sources of information that way. I want to ask a question in return. Why do you use SRA cards in class? Apart from it freeing you to check on the students as you describe, is it to give them more reading practice to complement the outside reading, or do you have other reasons?
Dyslexia
marc
00/01/31 16:26
-> There's an interesting article on dyslexia in this week's Newsweek. You can find it at
http://newsweek.com/nw-srv/printed/int/socu/a54673-2000jan24.htm
In class activities?
Tom R
00/01/27 19:17
-> In Japan reading is often taught as a separate 90-minute per week subject. In such cases, some sort of structured in-class activities are necessary, assuming that you don't want the students just sitting there doing their *outside* reading. I'm wondering what other teachers in this situation do? In my particular case, I have them use the SRA 2c kit in class. This frees me to go around and visit with individual students, read through the notebook that they keep and review their reading progress. What do YOU do?
Guardian article
marc
00/01/27 12:47
-> There was a short article in the Guardian Weekly last week about readers. Nothing heavy but it does talk about some of the trends.

You can find it at: http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,3953274,00.html

ER Research
George
00/01/26 10:25
-> I'd like to suggest a research design that would put a different twist on the Mason and Krashen (in press) paper on the Research page of our ER website. The Mason & Krashen paper is entitled: Can We Increase the Power of Reading by Adding More Output and/or Correction?

The twist I would propose is that instead of comparing a condition in which students only read books (plus wrote a brief L1 summary) with conditions in which students read books and then wrote longer L2 summaries, with or without correction, we could compare a Read Only condition with a Read Plus Discuss in Groups Condition, using some of the simple cooperative learning techniques mentioned in the draft: RoundRobin and Three-Step Interview. Perhaps, the group discussions would be beneficial because they might: a) motivate students to read more because they get recommendations from peers about what to read and because they are to tell peers about what they read; b) motivate students to read more carefully in preparation for the discussions. What would the dependent variables be? Perhaps: a) amount of reading to see in which condition students are motivated to read more b) reading and language proficiency Please contact me <gmjacobs@pacific.net.sg> if you think you could implement this research design or something like it, or if you have feedback on the design.

Something we already knew
marc
00/01/24 17:04
-> No surprise here but I just got my course evaluations back for a couple reading classes. I thought what one student (a 1st year college student) wrote summed up what ER is all about:

"Reading was boring work when I was high school student. But this year, I found "Reading" is fun and enjoyable thing, through this class. And also, I could learn new vocablaries from book, newspapers and articles. It helped me a lot."

Japanese-language ER website
Julian
99/12/29 12:51
-> Yoko Morimoto came up with the following useful information. She writes, "I would like to introduce a new e-mail magazine called "Paperback Lovers" http://free.prohosting.com/~paperbck/ It is run by Japanese people who just love to read authentic paperbacks for their pleasure and they are exchanging information on what books they liked, disliked, where they shop for them, and also they have a "books to sell" ad section, too. I have introduced it to my students and encouraged them to write for them. It is interesting to read it from a learner-directed learning point of view as well. It is all in Japanese except for information on the books such as author's names, titles, etc.."
misc.
marc
99/12/16 21:46
-> A couple off the topic notes.

www.eltnews.com just mentioned that the book company Scholastic decided to donate 1,000,000 books to poor neighborhoods in the USA. I think all of us who are interested in reading see how cool that is. On another point (not at all related to reading, but related to anyone who is on the Web -- so sorry if I'm off topic but it is the holiday season,right?) The website <http://hungersite.org> gives food to starving people. To help, all you have to do is visit the site and click the 'donate food' button. Their sponsors(advertisers) pay for the food and the United Nations delivers it. OK, here's the reading tie in. Once classes start up again, print a copy of this. Copy it for your students (assuming they have access to the Internet). Maybe you walk into class with an empty rice bowl. Whatever. Have them read it. See what happens. We are, after all, in the business of empowering people. Have a great holiday.8-)

After Reading [2]
Julian
99/12/16 09:04
-> Yes, Jasna writes that students choose their permanent partners at the beginning of the semester. I guess options could be assigning partners by lottery, and changing partners after 4 or 6 weeks. About summaries: I hate asking students to write them as it seems so phony and such a chore. But in a letter, a "summary" is a part of real communication because you're writing to inform and maybe intrigue your partner. If the book sucked, you'd probably dismiss it in a few words, but if it was good, you'd want to give your partner an idea of the story with a view to encouraging them to read it.
After Reading [1]
Andy
99/12/15 18:15
-> (colour-blind, so sorry if the colours are different) Julian - short question: are Jasna's students paired off for a series of classes then, so they are writing and responding to the same peer each time? Short comment: I like the idea of the letters. I've been having my students write a brief summary + opinion, but tend to think this is a little dry.
After Reading
Julian
99/12/15 17:37
-> What do you ask your students to do after they read a book? Write a summary for you? Write their reactions? Jasna Dubravcic offers another option in "Shared Reading Journals" in the March 1999 issue of The Language Teacher (vol. 23, no. 3, pp. 39-40): Students write letters to each other about their reading. The first part of the letter is a response to their partner's last letter; the second part is a summary of the book (or part of it) they have read; and the last part is their reactions or opinions about the book. Dubravcic suggests that reading their partner's letters may increase their interest in reading. In addition, they might try harder to do assignments on time if they know their partner is expecting a letter from them, and they may be motivated not to read less than their partner. Plus they learn about other books they might want to read. In sum, students may see it less as an assignment than as sharing their experiences and opinions with a peer--like chatting with a friend about a movie.
ER / Literacy Publication
Andy
99/12/08 17:23
-> Hello- plug 'n' play ...First, a quick plug for an ER Talk interview with George Jacobs and Willy Renandya, SEAMEO Regional Language Centre (RELC), Singapore, on Extensive Reading. Topics of discussion include: George and Willy's own experience of reading extensively in a foreign language, related work of various ER researchers, questions of teacher education and changes in teaching and learning that come with ER, motivating low proficiency learners, questions of bilingual input/output, cooperative learning, connections to ER on the web, and lots more.

The interview should be appearing in the next issue of Literacy Across Cultures, published by JALT's Foreign Language Literacy Special Interest Group, editor: David Dycus <dcdycus@asu.aasa.ac.jp>. You can find back issues of LAC by going to: http://www.aasa.ac.jp/~dcdycus/LAC99/MAR99/LACMAR99.HTM Speaking of the FLL group, one other quick plug... They're looking for officers from January 2000 to help run the group. Your chance to help keep the group going through 2000 and beyond. Please contact David Dycus for more details - you would really help this group by volunteering a few hours of your time over the next year. Plugs finished! Off to play! Bye!

Ruby Books [1]
Julian
99/12/04 10:02
-> Yes, Ken, I'm interested in contact information.
Ruby Books
Ken
99/12/03 10:42
-> I was just at Maruzen Book Store in Sendai, Japan and came across a reader series called Ruby Books. They are mostly popular classics and are the unsimplified text, but have nice little Japanese Kanji glosses just beneath lots of the challenging vocabulary. Might be good for readers almost ready for unsimplified materials. Has anyone used these? What do you think of them? I'll get more contact info if anyone's interested.
www.eltnews.com
marc
99/11/30 09:46
-> The web site http://www.eltnews.com posted a notice about the ER web site. eltnews.com carries info about elt in Japan.
student surveys [1]
marc
99/11/27 10:00
-> Below is the form I use. FYI, in my class, students do extensive reading outside of class (at least 500 pages per term). In class activities are a combination of reading tasks I've written, activities based on the ER they've done and SRAs. Also, a souce of student-to-student feedback is the form pasted on the inside cover of each ER book that asks students to check 'good' 'average' or 'poor'. Learners end up telling each other which books are good and which aren't.

Anyway, the survey I use: Reading 1 Student Feedback DO NOT write your name on this paper. Think about the class. Answer the questions.
1. Is reading English easier or about the same as before the class? • much easier • a little easier • about the same
2. Do you read faster now or about the same? • much faster • a little faster • about the same
3. Do you use your dictionary more or less than before? • more • about the same • less
4. What did you think of the outside reading (library books)? really liked/it helped hated/didn't help 5 4 3 2 1
5. Did you usually read at a level that was easy or difficult for you? • easy level • difficult level
6. What did you think of the SRA kits? really liked/they helped hated/ didn't help 5 4 3 2 1
7. What did you think of the other in-class readings (prints)? really liked/ hated/ they helped didn't help 5 4 3 2 1
8. Do you think you'll take READING II next year. • Yes • Maybe • No

student surveys
Nicolas R Cueto
99/11/26 05:15
-> Both Day&Bamford and the EPER guide suggest the use of surveys/questionnaires to ask students for their comments about an ER programme. A good idea, and so I was wondering if anyone would care to share some actual questionnaires that they have used in their own classrooms. I find that I myself understand best through examples, not to mention it'd save me time too. Thank you.
teacher-made placement test [3]
Julian
99/11/25 14:24
-> You asked about polishing: the purpose is to produce a good story or book, not to teach the student writing. So I guess you could consider yourself an editor and do what editors do: correct errors of course (grammar, spelling, etc.), clarify ambiguity by asking the student what s/he meant, and rewrite or rephrase as necessary to make a polished, readable end product. I think the students will always be glad to have a great story go out under their names. I know that when I write for a teachers' magazine, I'm so gratified at how good the editor has made my prose sound! Re. individual student dictation, students dictate orally, making the story up or relating their experience as they go along, and sometimes going back to add or change things. But I guess they could make notes beforehand if they wanted to. A reference for this technique in first language remedial reading is Lee & Neal (1992/3), Journal of Reading v36, 4, pp. 276-282. I can send you a copy if you like (email your mailing address to Julian Bamford, see Working Group page). Has anyone written up the dictation storywriting idea in a second language context, does anyone know?
New feature!
Tom
99/11/23 23:55
-> Dear ER-Talkers
 Please note the new Minimize Top button in the upper section. Clicking on it will give you more reading space in this lower section. After you click on it, drag the dividing bar between the two sections upward to increase the size of the lower window. Enjoy!
teacher-made placement test [2]
Nicolas R Cueto
99/11/23 06:34
-> Thank you Rob and Julian--good ideas! The poster idea is nice and simple but elegant. About Julian's suggestion of the EPER cards (which, co-incidentally, I ordered just last Sunday), does anyone have experience with these? By way of anecdote, as an immigrant to Canada, I can recall the colorful box of SRA cards--I'm imagining the EPER cards are like SRA--that lay beneath my grade 5 classroom's window was not half as interesting as the books about magic and dinosaurs I could get from the school library. Back to Julian's message, some questions about the 2nd and 3rd ideas: first, would anyone care to define some parameters to the word "polish" (my colleague and I are having friendly differences about this very issue right now), and second, does the student dictate from their own self-written story (!) or, rather, from a card or reader?
teacher-made placement test [1]
Rob
99/11/22 09:10
-> A common way to assess the placement of students is to copy the first page of readers at different levels and put the copies on one double sided B3 sheet. Place them in sequence. I have 8 on one paper. the students then read the first para of each one, if it is too difficult (they should finish 6-8 lines in a minute) then the step down a level, if too easy up a level. In this way the student self-selects her level (ER is self-selected reading after all).
esl.about.com
marc
99/11/22 08:29
-> Good news. "www.esl.about com" has listed the Extensive Reading web site and called it and "outstanding resource." Go to "www.esl.about.com" and then click on 'Reading and writing."

teacher-made placement test [1]
Julian
99/11/21 13:52
-> Are you asking for advice about making a placement test for struggling JHS3 students, or about what to do to help them overcome their difficulties? If it's the latter, here's two ideas. EPER (see link on Annotated Bibliography page of this site) sells 70 Starter and (extensive) Reading cards they made for students who cannot read the lowest level of graded reader. The second idea is that the students in a class write their own material which is polished by the teacher and made available for other students to read. (This is a burgeoning idea--see the Annoted Bibliography for several articles.) A third idea for individual students who need extra help is for them to dictate a story to a teacher (in English and/or Japanese) who types it in English on a word processor and negotiates editing with the student as they go along.
teacher-made placement test
Nicolas Cueto
99/11/21 04:58
-> I'm thinking of making my own placement tests by converting to cloze the opening page of a graded reader, excluding the opening paragraph (I think I read about this from Beniko Mason). This works fine for something like an Oxford Black but for the very low-level beginner texts we plan to use (young childrens picture books, in essence) are so rich in illustration and short on text that, even if I cloze the whole book, there's still something strange about it. Any advice about what to do for the student who, although in JHS3, I know is still having great difficulties wih English? Thank you.
EPER placement test [1]
Julian
99/11/09 10:22
-> EPER placement tests can be ordered from their website http://www.ials.ed.ac.uk/epermenu.html
EPER placement test
Karen
99/11/08 13:32
-> Could anyone tell me where I could find the EPER placement test?
Level of new CUP readers [1]
Karen
99/10/29 08:38
-> I just read Cambridge's Doublecross, supposed to be level 3. I was amazed, as it was difficult for even me to follow. No pictures, a plethora of names, and words like "archipelago" and "right-wing terrorists", and even probably harder was "right-wing party." I thought the story itself was good, just difficult thinking of my struggling students. Yes, I've emailed David Hill. What I am also wondering is this? Does anyone know any direct communication routes to the people who decide what graded readers to make? I would think they would be interested in our input, and I'd love to give it. I'd like to tell them we need more modern-day romances, and I know comedy is difficult, but see if it's possible - more happy books. Comments, anyone?
Level of new CUP readers [1]
Julian
99/10/20 18:06
-> David Hill of EPER (The Edinburgh Project on Extensive Reading) estimates that the Cambridge English Readers are at roughly the same levels as Oxford Bookworms. i.e. Cambridge Readers Level 1 = Bookworms Stage 1, and so on up to Cambridge Level 6 = Bookworms Stage 6. If your experience is different, please e-mail EPER at <eper.enquiries@ed.ac.uk>. EPER has read, assigned a difficulty level, and a quality rating for every graded reader ever published. If you ever want to know the levels of a graded reader series compared to series by other publishers, you can order a graded reader booklist from EPER--it's invaluable for making a library of language learners literature.
Level of new CUP readers
Marc
99/10/14 14:47
-> Does anyone know how the new Cambridge English Readers compare to other readers. Where would they fit on a level chart?

Thanks.

help! [1]
marc
99/10/12 19:56
-> ER at JALT was good. I hope those who were there will continue on this site with idea, questions, answers, etc.

Beniko Mason as written an intro to ER in Japanese to use to orient students. You can find it by going back to 'Starting an ER program.' Then go to Beniko Mason's information (in Japanese)

help!
Karen
99/10/12 15:25
-> It was great to be together at JALT, and especially the colloquim. I'd like to find the the page written in Japanese that explains ER to students. Can anyone tell me which "tree branches" to take to it? thanks.
Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [4]
Karen
99/10/07 07:32
-> I'm heartily in favor of more standardization from graded reader publishers. I would also like them to know that we prefer whole stories, not books of short stories. I'm looking forward to meeting as many of you as possible at JALT!
ER at JALT [1]
Julian
99/09/29 14:00
-> Marc wrote the details of two extensive reading presentations at JALT99 Maebashi several messages below. Here's one more: Karen Eilertsen is presenting on "Using Graded Readers in the EFL Classroom" on Saturday 6:15 - 7:00pm. in Room 502. It's one of the new "Sheltered English" presesentations aimed at Japanese teachers of English, but anyone is free to attend. Karen works at the School of International Training (Vermont) at Tokyo Jogakkan Jr. College. She's participated in this discussion page, and her email address is karen.eilertsen@sit.edu
Researching ER [2]
Rob
99/09/21 10:14
-> I have 250 references to work in ER, I gave the list to the group and the annotated ones have been put up. I'm not sure what happened to the others.

You can get my list from my home page http://www1.harenet.ne.jp/~waring/er/erindex.html^M

R

Researching ER [1]
Ken
99/09/20 14:33
-> Rob, I would like to get a look at your current list of references for ER research. Do you have it up on the web? Also, have you scanned through the annotated bibliography on this site? George, Willy, & Julian invite new submissions. Anything you'd like to suggest they include? Another possibility might be asking Tom to post your bib on the site, as well.
Researching ER
Rob
99/09/20 10:54
-> I wanted to open the discussion to research ER. We all know the main references (I can provide a list if need be). What concerns me about this research (mostly testing by mulltiple choice ) is that the results are nearly always the same - small but just significant gains from ER. I wonder whether these results are an artifact of the test rather than the reading?

Comments? R

Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [4]
Rob
99/09/20 10:51
-> My proposal was more for food for thought about what we might do to seize upon the original proposal to take the issue wider and cover more bases than just a simple token count. I feel before a more technical document is drawn up the issue of its practicality is in need of discussion, most particularly with the publishers themsleves. If we can't get the majority of publishers to agree then a technical document is wasted. My gut feeling is that publishers like to have a free hand to do what they like and the proposal al la

_____________________________________________________________ | 12500 | 700 different | Historical | lower | Teenage | | words | words | drama | elementary | | |____________________________________________________________| would be hard to do. I'm willing to volunteer to ask the reps at JALt about this for their responses, but it would have more impact if there was a general consensus that this is something that the ER community needs and is not too much to ask of publishers.

R

Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [3]
Rob
99/09/20 10:50
-> Oops sorry about the last message the formatting got a bit wonky. I'm not sure how to resolve this in html. Anyway I posted that a few days ago to a small group of ERers and got some replies. I sahll briefly say waht was said.

One opinion was that we need two letters - on a more technical one for word counts - a response was that we need not have a second letter just yet. A second response was that a readability measure would be the most useful one to ask publishers for. A third opinion was that the amount of reading and the gain scores on the tests do not correlate highly. When you compare readers to non-readers, you can see a significant difference. Let's take it form there. R

Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [2]
Rob
99/09/20 10:45
-> Hi all,

I think this is my message on this board. Sorry this is a long one. About word counts. Julian is right I think to specify what words should be counted. I don't mean to nitpick but very soon software will appear that counts multi-word units and as such software will necessarily be written for different research purposes. If we accept the multi-word measure later we will be opening a huge can of worms about consistency. Therefore we might add to the request that a word is 'a string of letters bound by spaces on either side' i.e tokens. There are quite a few abbreviations (e.g don't, we're etc) to mess up the count a bit (these are mostly high frequency), but I fell we can largely ignore this. However an objection I can see to the employment of this is that the books are classified as to the number of lemmas (the group of family members - help , helping, unhelpful etc). If a vocabulary of 700 lemmas are used this can be confused with the number of tokens (string of letters between spaces) in the book if both numbers are to be published. I'm not at all sure that many teachers / students are aware that 700 words does not mean the length of the book. It will not surprise me if _some_ learners seeing 1200 words on the back of a book will think it is the length of the book and be judging ther selection by this measure. Clearly there is often a correlation between the length of the book and the number of lemmas but the addition of a lemma count _and_ a token count may prove to be confusing to some. Publishers have it in their interest to avoid ambiguity / confusion. So they may use the terms Book length - 11500 words Number of different words used - 750 Another work around if they object to this is to place the two numbers in different places (e.g. the traditional lemma count on the back and the token count say on the copyright / ISBN page). Longman Classics put their lemma count on this page). Your thoughts? While I'm at it how about asking the publishers to standardize the word count by lemma counts too? I'm sure the publishers all use different selections for what consitutes a lemma count - some will have inflections only (increases the count) while others include derivations (reduces the count). Paul Nation has a little program which can be modifoed to count the lemmas based on basic lemmatized lists and I think Wordsmith should be able to do this. If all the publishers do this we'd be a lot better off. Unfortunately I can't see them doing this as the books are not categorized or graded only by words / lexemes / lemmas but by grammatical features too. The publishers need to see their books in levels or series to give a sense of progression and standardizing on lemma counts may subvert their marketing. On a broader note would it be workable / feasible/ nice to have several (say 5) measures rather than just a token count to make selection easier for learners / teachers? These come to mind * token count and or a lemma count * fiction / non-fiction *2 words about the story type = drama - mystery detective - biography - fairy *story - romance etc (this could get very unweildy) * age level = child, teenage , young adult, adult * Tape available or not etc. etc. More threatening / controversial measures may be * a readability measure (take your pick of several - or we could specify our own) * level (as many books are UK published the Cambridge Exam levels may be handy and well known by the publishers even if not the learners / teachers. There are of course many other possible scales.) There would be no need to be prescriptive about category members, but we could come up with a suggested list. I'm thinking of presenting this in a uniform place on all readers for all publishers (e.g at the bottom of the back page). Something like this _____________________________________________________________ | 12500 | 700 different | Historical | lower | Teenage | | words | words | drama | elementary | | |____________________________________________________________| As we all know EPER is a major strength here and we should ask David Hill to use his contacts UK side to promote any ideas we come up with.

Your thoughts welcome. We could put this to the audioence for their reactions. best

Place to post book reports
Eiko Ujitani
99/09/09 13:06
-> I'm looking for a place (eg. discussion list or homepage) where my ER students post their book reports. Do you know any sites or are you interested in creating one? So far my students have exchanged their book reports within the class and it has encouraged them to read books their friends enjoyed. I believe students will become more motivated to write book reports if they have a reader other than a teacher.
Extensive Reading in Japanese [1]
Nicolas Cueto
99/09/05 16:42
-> There doesn't seem to be much, if anything, by way of ER materials for JFL/JSL. Certainly nothing based on ER principles such as controlled or high-frequency vocabulary. Still, one possible approach is manga: short sentences (too short?), furigana, and of course illustrations.

As for readers themselves, the closest thing I've found here in Nagoya's largest int'l bookstore were simply collections of authentic materials (essays) and which are accompanied by kanji readings, glosses and translations: Ashby J 1994 "Read Real Japanese" Tokyou: Kodansha. Butler K D & Osamu M (eds.) 1984 "Integrated Spoken Japanese 1, Volume 1" Tokyo: Inter-University Center for Japanese Language Studies in Tokyo. Melchinger G & Kasha H (eds.) 1998 "The Japanese Written Word: A unique reader" Tokyo: Kodansha. [This book and Butler's include exercises for language practice.] Again, none of these are ER based. If anyone knows of something else, I too'd be glad to hear about it. BTW, does anyone know of computerized frequency counts for Japanese corpora, a la COBUILD or Bank of English?

Extensive Reading in Japanese
Richard
99/08/31 04:19
-> Ikumi Hitosugi and I are in the initial stages of planning a research project at the University of Hawaii involving extensive reading and beginning Japanese instruction. We would like to have students in one section of Japanese 102 (second semester Japanese) read extensively for the semester. Another section of Japanese 101 would serve as control group; the students would not do any extensive reading.

Does anyone know of other extensive reading programs in Japanese? In addition, we would appreciate suggestions for materials that the students could read.

ER at JALT
Marc
99/08/25 12:23
-> There will be at least two Extensive Reading sessions at JALT. That are: "Researching Extensive Reading" on Sunday, Oct 10, from 9:15 to 10:00 In room : 208

There will also be an ER Colloquium on Monday, Oct 11, from 12:30 to 2:15. If you need more information about the JALT conference, check their web site: http://www.jalt.org/conferences/ If other people are doing ER related sessions, please let us know the titles, dates and times.

ER colloquium at Korean TESOL/PAC2
Marc
99/08/25 12:22
-> At the Korea TESOL/ PAC2 (Pan Asian Conference), Oct 1-3 in Seoul, there will be a colloquium on Extensive Reading. It's on Saturday, Oct 2 from 2:30-3:20 in room Cosmos C.

Hope to see you there. If you need information on PAC 2, check their web site: http://www.kotesol.org/pac2/

fossilization [2]
Beniko Mason
99/08/09 19:42
-> Artificial noticing will not do the work. Learners must notice whatever they want to notice in order for acquisition to take place. In my recent study I found that even after 15 months of error correction feedback and rewriting activieis, lerners were not better than those who did not do any output activities. Input alone seemed to be efficient on grammatical accuracy.
Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [1]
Beniko Mason
99/08/09 19:34
-> Yes, I would like the publishers to tell us how many words are in that graded readres. I have my students count roughly the pages too becasue they last page does not mean the number of pages that students read. I ask my students to exclude the picure pages. Yes, let's ask the publishers to include that information. That is a good idea.
Class readers [1]
Tom
99/08/01 08:18
-> Here's the address for the Edinburgh Project on Extensive Reading: http://www.ials.ed.ac.uk/epermenu.html. I'll add it to our Materials page, as well.
Check-out procedures [2]
Tom
99/08/01 01:04
-> Ken, you aren't alone. We lose about 250 books a year! We also have an 'honor' system.

Student browse books that are on a cart in the hallway outside my office then check out up to TWO books using a computer program I wrote.

The problem is that students often don't know which book will be easy or interesting for them, despite labels specifying the level and popularity lists. They thus, it appears, grab a fistful to take home.

Three weeks ago I discovered that 150 books had already walked. I then marked those books as 'lost' in the computer and told the students that the missing books could not be counted towards their reading goal. (The computer would not accept 'pages read input' for those books.)

Magically, the books started to walk back. I now have about 70 of the 150 back in circulation!

Check-out procedures [1]
Julian
99/07/31 14:13
-> I use library cards (pocket stuck in the back of each book with a library card with the name of the book). Students take out the card and write their name and school number (number alone would be enough actually) and date borrowed, and leave the card in the room. That way we can track down unreturned books. In Japan, that should be enough, but if you think people will sneak books out of the room without filling out and leaving the card, appoint student monitors.
Class readers
Julian
99/07/31 14:04
-> Karen--in your "Fossilization [2] message you say you want to do language focus activities with a class set of readers, aiming to teach strategies and increase comprehension. The Edinburgh Project on Extensive Reading has produced superb lesson plans for class readers. I don't know how many they've made, but it must be at least 20, for graded readers at various difficulty levels. From Japan (to UK), call 44-131-650-6200 or fax 44-131-667-5927. They have a website but I don't have the URL.
Check-out procedures
Ken
99/07/31 11:48
-> I run a ER program with ten classes and close to 300 students. I used to use check-out sheets to monitor book borrowing and returns, but even with multiple check-out sheets, this took too much time (sp?) at the end of class, even with multiple check-out sheets. (Students select books in the classroom at the end of each class-period.) Also, practically, the sheets were difficult to monitor. Eventually, I just went to the honor system, with students keeping their own log of borrow and return, which I see at the end of each term. Any way, every year we lose a lot!! of books. Mostly, I'm sure because they get misplaced, or students never actually get around to returning them. I'd like to move at least a portion of the books over to the library, but that's not an option at this point. Anyone doing something that's effective (in ensuring returns) and time-efficient?
Who buys your books? [1]
Ken
99/07/31 11:38
-> Like Tom did at first, I charge each student a fee at the beginning of the year and order the books myself. No one in the administration has complained, but I've never told them either. Students probably aren't crazy about it, but most seem to realize the value of it, and some even comment that this gave them access to many more books than they could have accessed on their own. In my current position, I don't have access to any library/book fund. And my research budget couldn't finance the number of books I need to buy.
fossilization & noticing [3]
marc
99/07/30 11:29
-> My take on "noticing" is that, while SLA can and does happen without it, noticing is a way to speed up the process. The is very much like what happens when a teacher, a textbook, a friend, etc. mentions a language feature (for example, a grammar point) and we think, "Really? I've never seen that." and then go out in the real world and realized we've been seeing or hearing in dozens of times a time -- we just never noticed.

A good book on this topic is: Focus on form in classroom second language acquisition. By C.Doughty & J.Williams (1998, CUP)

At last year's JALT conference, I did a session on grammar and included some ideas for adding "noticing tasks" to other classroom activities. I often do these as a follow-up to reading. If you'd like a copy of the handout, email me: march@mgu.ac.jp

fossilization [2]
Karen
99/07/30 09:27
-> George - You raise good questions. I in the planning stages of our reading program for next term. In addition to individual extensive reading for "pleasure", I'm thinking of ways we could use readers in the classroom for more language focus activities. This would need to be done through a class set that we read intensively/analytically than their individual selections. The aim is to teach strategies that increase comprehension - both top down and bottom up. Am presenting reading Christine Nuttal's book - wow!
fossilization [1]
George Jacobs
99/07/29 12:11
-> Julian was saying that, despite large amounts of comprehensible input via ER, etc., people don't progress in their SLA because of lack of noticing of particular items. If that is right, it means that acquisition is not unconscious and, in some cases, we need to try to get students to notice while they are reading. Is that other people's view as well. Any ideas on promoting noticing? Would promoting noticing disrupt the pleasure of reading?
Teacher's beliefs and practices [1]
George Jacobs
99/07/29 12:06
-> An M.A. student here at RELC, Jennifer Pang, is doing a study of the type you ask about Jennifer. She's doing the study with primary school teachers in Singapore. Her email is: jenn.pang@pacific.net.sg - in case anyone has any insights for her. She collecting her data now and won't be finished till very late in the century (the present one).
Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [2]
marc
99/07/28 10:53
-> I've mentioned it to the Longman people and also got the vague "That's an idea." kind of response. Here's an idea: We've got colloquia at Pac2/Korea TESOL and JALT. What if we wrote an open letter (which sounds so much friendlier than 'petition' to the publishers of graded readers. We explain the issue and pass it around for anyone to sign who wants to, along with the name of their school or program. Then, after the conferences, we send a copy to each major publisher. (Along with Karen's comment about whoever does so being rewarded with business -- it's true.

classroom activities [2]
Karen
99/07/28 10:24
-> Ken, I did read your article in the Model Program section and like the ideas very much. Not only for classroom activities, but also the justifications for using ER in an oral communications course. I'm delighted to know there will be an ER colloquium at JALT - will see you there! In my other response to you about word counts, I was embarrassed to see my error after hitting the send button. I had changed the wording, but not edited - I really do know standard English!
Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [1]
Karen
99/07/28 10:12
-> Ken, I'm also would very much appreciate publishers giving us a word count. Too bad their response to you has been so disappointing. The first to do it would be rewarded with business from me! Tom or any of the rest of us should have to do it.
Orientation Handbook for students
Beniko Mason
99/07/28 02:31
-> I will be submitting a copy of the handbook that I give to my ER students for posting on this site after I come back from AILA in TOKYO.
Total Word Counts for Graded Readers [1]
Tom
99/07/27 18:23
-> Hey, Ken, you've stolen my colors!

Concerning word count, one work-around would be for those of us who have counted or estimated the pages for some titles to contribute those counts to a new page on the ER site. I'd be very happy to compile the info!

Total Word Counts for Graded Readers
Ken
99/07/26 20:12
-> Is the anyone out there like me who would like to see publishers of graded reader series include total word counts somewhere in their books? I'm not talking about the number of basal words. I give credit based on the amount of reading my students do. Knowing the number of words in each book would give me a quick and reliable way to measure reading quantity. Most teachers I know who measure this simply take the published page count, make a guestimate of the number of reading pages in a book, or count words on an average page and multiply by the number of pages.

Not only is this time-consuming, and of doubtful accuracy, but since everyone does it differently, page counts that we talk about at conferences, etc. have little if any meaning. They're not comparable.

For most published readers, supplying a word count would take minimal work or expense for the publisher, and would greatly simplify program administration. I've pursued this with every major publisher, but have received nothing better than a vague promise to try running a word count on a couple of books sometime.

Is this a non-issue for most people? If it would seem useful, do you have any advice for ways to pursue this? Thanks!

classroom activities [1]
Ken
99/07/26 19:16
-> Karen, Regarding classroom activities, I use ER as part of my English Communication classes. I've got some of the activities I use in my paper (Ken Schmidt) in the Model Programs section of this site. Andy Barfield and I will also be presenting some things on this topic at the next JALT conference as part of the ER colloquium. Hope that's a bit of a help.
Teacher's beliefs and practices [1]
Julian
99/07/26 11:17
-> I don't know of any L2 study, but a 1975 L1 study by Whitehead, Capey and Maddrew (Children's reading interests. London: Evans/Methuen) considered factors associated with avid reading and found the teacher to be the single most important of these. For L2, my interpretation (not a study) of many reports of successful ER programs makes me sure the same is true for L2 ER programs.
Bugs fixed
Tom
99/07/25 16:39
-> I've modified the cgi program and if you find that you can't post, it might be because you have an old copy of this html file in your browser. Try reloading, holding down the shift yet, or if that doesn't work, clearing your cache from 'Advanced' in your preferences.
Teacher's beliefs and practices
Jennifer
99/07/23 19:44
-> Hi, I am a strong advocate for ER programme to be implemented. However, I think the success of the programme is very much dependent on the beliefs the teachers hold as they are the ones to prioritise the activities to be conducted in the classroom. My question is, has there been any study so far, on the beliefs and practices of the teachers in the area of ER. Thank you.
Subject lines now added! [2]
Tom
99/07/23 09:02
-> I've now added a number in square brackets. Original subjects have no label, and the first reply is labelled [1], etc.
Who buys your books? [8]
karen
99/07/22 09:10
-> Tom, I got a system error when trying to send my response, so please forgive me if this comes through twice. As for how we hlep students select an appropriate level, we give them samples of levels close to their level to choose what feels most comfortable, accompanied with information about how to choose level. As for them maybe choosing something uninteresting, that is a risk. We let them browse through the catalogs, and advise them as they deliberate. They love this process, choosing their own books, owning them, trading, etc. There has been no disapproval from administration about us handling money.
Subject lines now added! [1]
karen
99/07/22 09:05
-> Tom, is there any way to indicate if a subject line is an original or a response to another?
ER issues? (getting other teachers support) [1]
marc
99/07/21 20:40
-> Karen asked about getting other teachers to support her program. I teach in an International Culture department. At the beginning, we specifically looked for some readers that included other teachers areas (various countries, racial issues, ethnic folktales, etc.) Then we circulated a book list to let them know that what we were doing in ER was potentially reinforcing what they were doing. Also, since students have gotten web access, we've been introducing search engines that target at lower reading level non-fiction (www.ajkids.com is good) and sometimes dig up accessible stuff in English to pass on to other teachers -- largely to point out that the students are not limited to L1 in their research.
Who buys your books? [7]
Tom
99/07/21 17:12
-> Karen, if your program is buying the books, that's fine, but if the students will be purchasing them themselves, then somehow you will need a system to guide them towards appropriate titles, lest they waste their money on books which turn out to be at the wrong level or simply uninteresting. How have you considered handling this (potential) problem?
Who buys your books? [6]
Karen
99/07/21 09:05
-> Tom, this is interesting because we also are planning to have the students buy at least two copies. The program is planning to buy two copies per student to start with. We are counting on students trading between themselves and with us.
ER issues? Ideas? Questions? Suggestions?
Karen
99/07/21 09:00
-> I teach with The School for International Training at Tokyo Jogakkan Jr. College. I'm in the process of getting an ER program started here. I'm also presenting at JALT on this topic. My presentation will be in a new Sheltered English option for non-native English speakers attending JALT. One of the issues in setting up an ER program is to revise the curriculum to reflect a change in focus. We need to make our course goals and objectives clear. We need to see how the ER can support other language objectives One problem is selling the idea to the other teachers. That's a start for now.
classroom activities
Karen
99/07/21 08:50
-> Hi, y'all! I'm a new extensive reading enthusiast, and have been asked to spearhead implementing a reading program for the larger English program. I'm interested in developing classroom activities that both support the reading and also use the reading to help with other language objectives - speaking fluency, pronunciation, grammar, etc. Is anybody else doing this?
Browsing Material
Tom
99/07/18 20:02
-> Julian mentioned below (July 13) that he finds U.S. Today useful to have around for the (better) students to pick up and browse. Does anyone else bring non-required reading material to class for this purpose? If so, what publications do you use?
fossilization
Julian
99/07/18 11:14
-> Put it down to salience. I'm looking out of my window right now. If there were others looking out, all of us would attend to different things, according to what was important to us. For fossilized people, those finer (or basic) points of grammar are not salient. They don't notice them.
fossilization
gmj
99/07/17 14:07
-> I know people who gets lots of comprehensible input in the L2, a lot of it via reading, but still make lots of basic errors in grammar. These people have years of getting large quantities of comprehensible input, via reading and other means, and can read at a very high level.
ER issues? Ideas? Questions? Suggestions?
ER working group
99/07/17 10:52
-> Some of the people involved with this page will be doing sessions at both the PAC2 (Pan-Asia Conference)/Korea TESOL and at JALT (Japan Assoc. for Lang Teaching) conference this fall.
We'd be very interested in knowing the issues, problems, etc. that other teachers face in setting up ER programs or in adding ER to other English programs.
Thanks.
Who buys your books? [5]
Tom
99/07/16 10:22
-> Ah, yes, the dynamics of school administrations! Yes, in fact the fellow who made the decision was just (finally) transferred in April, so I can give it another go now. Thanks for suggesting that, Julian!
Who buys your books? [4]
Julian
99/07/16 09:56
-> Maybe you are now used to running an "in house" library. But if you'd prefer to transfer the whole shooting match to the school library, perhaps you could make that a long-term project. Cultivate relationships with one or more of the library staff and/or a teacher assigned to the library committee. The person who made the original "no space in the open stacks" decision is presumably long gone. At some library meeting at some time in the future, the decision could just as easily go the other way.
Who buys your books? [3]
Tom
99/07/15 23:32
-> At my school we couldn't get the library to house the books for a simple reason: They stated that there was no room left in their 'openstack' area, and to put them in the closed area where they would not be directly accessible to the students to browse was not acceptible. Thus we had to establish and manage our own 'in house' library.
Who buys your books? [2]
Julian
99/07/15 23:29
-> Here at Bunkyo University we have a library budget similar to Marc's college (except that it's a general budget, not allotted to individual teachers). I haven't used it. Twice a year we have an "Omonogai" budget which teachers can apply for to buy "big stuff." It consists of several million yen, plus (in spring) whatever individual research budget money was unspent by teachers. Last year, noticing that the books in the two ER libraries here were the worse for wear, I applied for 600,000 yen to buy about 900 books. I expect I'll repeat the procedure every 5 years or so. In addition, I'm real bad at buying newly published books for the libraries. Marc has inspired me to do better. I intend to spend about 70.000 yen of my research budget annually to buy two copies each of 50 or so new titles that came out that year.
Student review of Alice
marc
99/07/15 10:52
-> Just read the following in a students reaction report on Alice in Wonderland (the OUP version):
Alice in Wonderland is a story of anorexia nervosa. I read the Alice story every year. Whenever I read it, my point of view about the story changes. This time, I read it as I think (sic) about anorexia nervosa. Surely, Alice's body was changed by eating. Alice is a refelction of (the period when) the sotry was written. Eating by women isn't; well. So Alice received the punishment.
Who buys your books? [1]
marc
99/07/15 10:49
-> Our department gets a library budget (for books teachers want placed in the university library for student use). This is divided evenly among the teachers. It comes to about 200,000 yen each. The year we established the ER program, an English Conversation teacher who really didn't need that many books added to the main library, let me use her share along with my own. After that, I've been able to keep adding books with the regular library budget.
Who buys your books?
Tom
99/07/15 00:01
-> For a number of years, I purchased the books for our ER program by dunning the students 500yen each at the beginning of the year. When the adminstration of the school found out about this however, they insisted that teachers should NOT handle money taken from students. Since however, they realized that funds were necessary for the ER program, they created a small budget of 250,000 annually for book purchases.
I'm wondering how other schools deal with book purchases. Please let us know!
Subject lines now added!
Tom
99/07/14 23:57
-> I've now added a subject line function for each message. This should make viewing the messages more efficient.
Tom
99/07/13 18:51
-> Checking out the site
Julian, the Refresh button is useful in two ways. 1) If a number of people are using the site in real time, you can see what someone else has posted since you opened the page on your browser or posted your own contribution. This causes the browser re-read the file from the server.
Maximum lines to view allows you to pull in only the most recent messages. I can foresee that the number of lines (=colored stripes or individual submissions) could go into the hundreds, but since this default is set at 25, only the most recent 25 lines will be provided. If you want to see all of them, you would have to reset the number and then hit 'refresh dialog'.
USA Today sounds like a good idea!
Julian
99/07/13 14:22
-> Checking out the site
This chat room looks like a useful tool, especially if Tom pulls out interesting discussion threads and posts them elsewhere. Tom, I have a couple of questions: what's the refresh dialog button for? And what's the maximum lines to view mean? And for everyone, here's something I started doing this school year. I started subscribing to the daily newspaper USA Today. It's very colorful, and apart from news, it has a lot of entertainment news, sports, editorials (pro and con an issue) and background features. It's a good thing to have around for students to pick up and browse. And it's a good source of articles to use to teach written (rather than spoken) English vocabulary to students who have TOEFL scores of 490 or above. (words like "controversial, hazard, recruit, ward off, cautious, torment, conflict, in part, frequent, ensure. . .)
marc
99/07/13 10:34
-> Checking out the site
Good point (several, actually). I do agree about the layers and layers thing. Also, with somehthing like this, we can just scan it and, maybe, turn imp't. questions, etc. into a set of FAQs. 8-)
Tom
99/07/12 16:45
-> Checking out the site
It's me again... The problem I see with discussion forums (fora?) like Dave's is that there are several layers that you have to go through before you get to the meat. You need to decide which topic area to look at, then scan the titles of the messages, select a message to read, and what to you get? -- a full screen full of all sorts of junk with a two-liner message in small print!

This style gives you the meat quickly and makes it easy to scan the whole shootin' match. It would be easy for me, in the future, to extract discussions worth preserving and move them to a separate indexed area.

At any rate, what I would like to suggest is that we go with this as an initial device, and then when we find problems with it, that we either modify it or put in a different system.

Tom
99/07/12 15:29
-> Checking out the site
Marc, the way this is set up, no. Except that your response would probably be right above their question, assuming that the list isn't too active. Yes, a threaded list would be more useful and might even be necessary should the volume increase. I can, however, make separate 'rooms' for different topic areas, which might help.
marc
99/07/12 15:19
-> Checking out the site
This is a test message. If I want to ask a question about ER and someone answers it, where would that answer appear? (is it possible to connect them?). I'm thinking here of discussion areas in efcafe.com or eslcafe.com.